The great thing about extreme music is that, no matter where you look around the globe, you’ll be sure to come across an outstanding brand of metal, hardcore, crust punk, harsh noise, or experimental sounds. In the case of Dephosphorus, the geographical distance between them and Vuyvr proved less important than a relative isolation of the rising Greek scene, due to socio-economical factors – eventually overcome by internet communication. But keep in mind that this land is the birth place of democracy, and of key philosophical concepts that came long before christianity and still guide us to this day. Interestingly enough, even though their music is as brutal and impulsive as can be, these guys speak from a very deep place, with passion and wisdom. So why not look into the cosmogony and artistry according to Dephosphorus?
Intro and questions by Roderic Mounir.
Hi Dephosphorus! You explained the origin of your awesome name in a previous CVLT Nation interview, so let’s switch to the next question.
The only Greek bands we know are Rotting Christ, Septic Flesh and you guys. And Aphrodite’s Child, of course! Any strong, influential acts that mean a lot to you, that we should immediatly check? Also, tell us more about the current scene in the region.
Panos : The Greek underground scene is currently on the rise, reaching creativity heights unseen since the early/mid-90’s. Comrades currently on top of my list :
– Dead Congregation. IMO the best death metal band in the world right now.
– Antimob. Amazing hardcore punk with political lyrics in greek. If you want to get a glimpse of how it is to live in Greece right now, you will definitely feel the tension and frustration throughout their music.
– Ruined Families. Dark, chaotic hardcore with no-wave and post-punk hints. Crucial stuff !
– Omega Monolith. Instrumental, drone-y heavy rock of epic proportions.
– End. Fantastic black metal.
– Stereo Animal. Great 90’s-style metal and noise rock a la Killing Joke, Prong, Helmet, Godflesh, Ministry…
– … plus all the local bands featured in the Monomaniac comp. EP series that I’m putting together through my label, Blastbeat Mailmurder. Forthcoming Vol.2/3 will feature a ton of great bands.
Numerous local bands have raised the bar over the last 10 years, and started to do their own thing outside of the beaten path. More and more of them are touring abroad too, so watch out!
We’re not sure if you’ve ever toured, and even played live. If not, why is that? How hard is it to played shows in Greece, also to tour abroad?
Thanos : I am currently in Sweden for studies and the guys are in Greece so as you can imagine it’s a little bit difficult to meet and play often. We decided from the start when the band was formed, that we would focus more in discography rather than playing live. It’s something that may happen under the right conditions in the future.
Which leads us to the current economical/political situation. Panos, you know my strong personal connection to Greece (I’ve been there a dozen times since 1979): I find it hard to take, whenever I hear or read about the situation. You’ve had the opportunity to speak out about corruption and failed state. Can you describe the current state of events, and also how you experience it in everyday life?
Panos : The government is trying to reform Greece, or so it claims. Too little, too late.
Our state and society are plagued by evils who have their roots back in the formation of the modern greek state, two centuries ago (the Greek revolution took place in 1821), and even further back in time, when the land was part of the Ottoman and Byzantine empires.
Corruption, lack of quality education and rational/scientific thought, religious superstition, conservatism, tyrannic mediocracy/kakistocracy present in all forms of social, cultural, and financial life…
Living in Greece these days is a grim experience, not only because of the declining conditions of life (the biggest unemployment in Eurozone, excruciating taxes, ruined health system, etc) but foremost because there is little hope. We have failed to built a functional, modern society.
Our most talented and bright youth currently desert the country, and this is the worst thing that can possibly happen. As the titan Kronos, modern Greece devours its own children…
There is another dramatic fact that I would like to bring to your attention. There are currently ecological crimes under way in Greece. Foreign companies with the collaboration of some local ones and the benediction of the government, are trying to rape the beautiful, Greek nature, turn our country into a dumpster in the name of profit.
The Canadian company El Dorado is about to annihilate 317,000 acres of beautiful, ancestral forest in the location of Skouries, at Halkidiki, in Northern Greece. They want to turn it into a gold mine, producing toxic waste that will permanently damage the environment. There is currently a hard struggle of the local community going on, countered by brutal police repression. Please take a couple of minutes from your precious time and sign the petition here. You can get all the background (in english) here and here.
Would you say that this frustrating situation has an impact on your music and lyrics?
Panos : The lyrics of our discography so far have been written before the crisis came crashing down on us, so they have not been directly influenced by it.
I think that the negative side of modern Greek society, which has been put into the magnifying glass by the current crisis (this being a very good thing actually), has given an extra darkened tone to the lyrics of our new material, aka to our 2nd full-length album due out later this year.
If you take the time to read the lyrics of our post-« Axiom » material (« Night Sky Transform » and the two split-7″ EP’s with Wake and Great Falls), you will notice a quasi-obsession with the triumph of science and reason. This applies not only to mankind, but more specifically to our local Greek reality.
I believe that we need to build a new Greece with solid foundations upon the ashes. There is only one way that this can happen. If we stop lying to ourselves, and have the guts to look ourselves in the mirror. With science and history as the most important tools, we must discover who we really are. Stop having delusions of grandeur. Deal once and for all with the skeletons in our closet. In the last century we’ve been through two military juntas, one civil war, and multiple conflicts. The historical truth has been raped over and over again, falsified according to the agenda of each political movement and crooked government… We’ve learned nothing so far.
One of the side effects of the crisis is that a whole apolitical generation is waking up and slowly reaching out of apathy – or at least that’s what I hope…
Among your questions to Vuyvr, one touched the subject of political extremism and neonazism. We’re curious to learn more about the Golden Dawn Party. Do you attribute its rise to deeply rooted Hellenic Neopagan beliefs, or do you see these guys as a bunch of opportunist thugs taking advantage of the current weakness of the state? Maybe both?
Panos : Excellent question! Let me get this staight: there is nothing Neopagan to be found in Golden Dawn.
They’re amalgaming chauvinism with a superficial, selective fetishism of Ancient Greece, focusing on the military achievements of that period (mainly Leonidas and the Spartans, the victories upon the Persians, Alexander The Great), thus cultivating delusions of grandeur and macho fantasies of heroic war. At the same time they are endorsing a traditionalist Christian Orthodox identity…
Christianization destroyed Ancient Greece. The heathen worldviews of Ancient Greeks had nothing to do with the brutal, idiotic superstition of Judeochristianity. Combining both is deeply irrational and outrageous from a scientific and ideo/theological point of view. It’s a populist recipe that works pretty well targeted to the frustrated, uneducated bulk of Greek society, harvesting an important protest vote.
Golden Dawn has muscle, street presence, highly placed connections/sponsors, plus they have the police watching their back. Their rise is a perfect example of the abyssal contradictions at the core of Modern Greece.
Our collective psyche is steeped into paradox… Ever heard an argument like « when we were building the Parthenon, you were living in the caves » ? As embarassing as it is, this kind of mentality represents some of my compatriots. It’s been mainstream in Modern Greece over the last half century, embraced by people all over the political and social spectrum. So, when Golden Dawn takes it into extremes, everybody’s responsible, because almost everybody has endorsed or tolerated it.
Getting excited by the supposedly glorious blood who flows into our veins, being proud of a « superior » D.N.A… All this doesn’t make sense because in ancient times, being Greek meant having a Greek education and believing in the Greek gods. It wasn’t something genetic. Being of pure blood after 2,000 years in a land which is at the crossroads between the East and the West, makes little sense anyway.
There are lot of educated, brilliant, creative people in Greece. There is a whole lot of potential too. But in order to move on we have to change our state of mind and break the chains of kakistocracy and corruption, and most of all, recreate from scratch our educational system. We have to fight back against the worst part of the Modern Greek psyche, represented so well, but not exclusively, by the Golden Dawn.
As I have previously said, we have all our share of responsibility towards our present condition. Left and right wing politicians, public servants, common people, everybody. Golden Dawn is not the only thing that goes wrong in the Greece of today. It is a symptom and if we do not cure the cause, they won’t go away anytime soon.
We know about the band Naer Mataron, whose bass player sits in the Greek Parliament. Is there an active extreme right-wing BM scene in Greece?
Panos: Yes.
More generally and not necessarily political, Ancient Hellenic Paganism, Polytheistic Reconstructionism, whatever you want to call it, seem to be resurgent in Greece. Can you tell is more about it?
Panos: Our educational system and our elders have taught us from birth that the Ancient Greeks were awesomely fantastic. They had one single flaw though: they believed in fake, simplistic gods. Whereas we, Modern Greeks, were smart enough to embrace the one true god Yahweh, and his bastard son Jesus fucking Christ.
So, when in the late-80’s/early-90’s, a few people like the author Vlassis Rassias, the heathen underground zine Diipetes, the Supreme Council Of Hellene Gentiles, etc, have revealed the true nature of pre-christian, polytheistic Hellenic Tradition, this was a major breakthrough for a lot of people (including myself), as well as a blow to the Modern Greek moral/christian establishment.
Seeing through two millenia of lies and defamation, we’ve learned that the Ancient Greeks’ religion was not to be separated from their culture, education, mythology and arts, and contributed greatly to their worldviews. It was highly symbolic and of a staggering, poetic beauty.
There is currently an important Neopagan movement in Greece, but unfortunately it’s separated between many factions and it is not well organized. It’s also swarming with charlatans and bigots (nazis, christians, new age hippies, etc), each trying to recruit for their own agendas and wallets.
Playing «An Club» in Athens with Knut in 2007 was an absolute mind-blowing experience. Sharing the stage with your previous band Straighthate made it all the more special. And then spending a full day off in Athens, going to the beach at Marathon (an historic place, site of a huge battle against Persians), eating amazing Greek food and sharing our common passion for Immolation (esp. «Closed to A World Below»!)… How do you look at this event, in retrospect? I’ve always wondered how a bunch of young, passionate Greeks made if possible to bring bands like Converge, Isis, Jesu, Keelhaul and more, at the time. I guess things have changed quite a bit lately. Did this period leave any trace on the local scene in terms of motivation, music, etc?
Thanos: I remember that day with honor, as I was listening to Knut from the moment “Challenger” came out in 2001. I keep listening to that record still, almost once per month and it is already 2013; that says it all. What was happening back then was really important for people like us, because we had the opportunity to play with and watch live our “heroes”. It was a significant period of time since people took the risks to bring the bands you mentioned above and created a small scene which was evolving continuously. That as a move itself gave the necessary confidence and courage to other people to keep on bringing bands later on but maybe with a smaller effect.
Panos: Those few days were memorable and we had an absolutely amazing time with you guys! That was also the last really good show that me and Thanos played with Straighthate (we broke up almost one year after). I think that the small local scene that we were part of at that time has left a legacy, and planted some of the seeds that have contributed to the current rise of the greek underground…
Back in the late 80’s, early-mid 90’s, seeing Unsane, Barkmarket, Today Is The Day, Godflesh, Zeni Geva, The Jesus Lizard, TAD, Melvins, Napalm Death, Entombed, Morbid Angel, The Young Gods, Neurosis play Geneva had such an impact on us! What were your life-changing moments of that kind?
Thanos : All these names are among our influences so they had a great impact on us as well! In 2004 I traveled with friends to London to watch first time Neurosis with Jarboe. I will remember that day for the rest of my life. Same goes when we played as Straighthate with Canadians Cursed in Athens with fellows Into the Gore. Keelhaul Athens show in 2003 was also mind-blowing!
Panos : My formative years have been during my studies in Paris from 1992 until 1997. Every gig I attended back at the time gave me something. Nevertheless I would credit :
– All Suicidal Tendencies gigs I’ve been to for the positive energy, fun and gigantic mosh pits. Mike Muir definitely influenced me with the way he occupied the stage.
– Metallic hardcore bands such as Kickback, Merauder, Congress, Pro-Pain for their fearless urban brutality.
– A few particular gigs with a very special line-up. The first one was Entombed (circa « Wolverine Blues ») with Napalm Death. The second one was a mini-fest with : Dub War, Fear Factory, Downset, Biohazard and Machine Head. The third one was the stop in Paris of the Slayer/Machine Head tour.
– Seeing for the first time Immolation, Death, Sepultura, Faith No More, Bad Religion, NOFX, Morbid Angel, had also a major impact on me.
In recent years, some of the most memorable and inspirational gigs were the gigs that Thanos mentionned (including Knut in Athens) plus Swans at Roadburn, Shora in Athens, Antaeus with Dead Congregation in Athens, The Residents in Athens, Unsane in Geneva, Kaamos in Athens (that was during this gig that I’ve invited Thanos to try out as a guitarist for Straighthate !), Kickback in Athens, etc.
Now into your music: «Axiom» was an incredible statement, harsh and relentless. «Night Sky Transform», though very brutal, sounds a little less caustic, more organic and refined. How much attention did you pay to dynamics and sound on this one?
Thanos: When we finished “Axiom” we decided that things should work really different for our next recording. So we decided to work with our friend Miltos for “Night Sky Transform”. It’s important to keep the balance when working with friends though; limits are crucial and tricky. But on the other hand, this gives you the opportunity to work on things you could not work on, being in a proper and expensive studio. Thinking about time and money constantly destroys your imagination and hunger for something more. We had some time to find a good sound overall and to expand a little bit our dynamics, but this is due to the song structures more and less due to the studio surroundings. We rent a decent drum kit and cymbals and I used my own equipment for the guitar which made a significant impact in the album, sound wise.
Songs like «Starless» evoke influences that have little in common with death or black metal. In fact, crustpunk, noisecore and doom sound just as important to you guys. Right?
Thanos: That is very true indeed. We don’t have a strict metal background. I met Panos through our love for hardcore music when he was opening with Straighthate for Hatebreed in 2002. We have always been with both feet in the crust/punk/noisecore scene and I personally was more influenced from Unsane and Nasum rather than some average death/black band. It is extremely important to report though that I love specific death and black metal bands but I would never consider myself a fan of that genre. Songs like “Starless” have all the punk attitude a song needs to have, in order to smash your teeth and make you feel awkward. That’s the whole thing.
«Aurora», with its shifts in dynamics and those discordant chords, brings to mind records like «Fear Emptiness Despair» (best Napalm Death record!), His Hero Is Gone, Rorschach and other bleak underground hardcore acts from the mid 90’s. How important were punk/hardcore/noise in your musical development?
Thanos: As I said above, most important! The discordant chords is something I use a lot and I am not completely sure who should I blame for that. I think I always loved Godflesh and Sonic Youth guitars which always had these kinds of chords. The tuning of the guitar as well creates these chords from itself. Record labels like Ampthetamine Reptile were extremely important to us and bands like Unsane, Barkmarket, Cows, Melvins, Helmet, Hammerhead and Tar just changed completely the way I was listening to music before. Then Hydrahead and other labels (Escape Artists etc) were evolving a lot and changed the whole game again with bands like Anodyne, Keelhaul, Knut, Cattle Press etc, let alone the European hardcore movement (Good Life Records etc). I always felt more connected to that kind of music rather than metal.
Tell us a little bit about the recording process for «Night Sky Transform». I get it that you did not record live in your practice space, like we did, but in a proper studio. Did urgence (maybe lack of time) work as a fuel?
Thanos: Absolutely, it works like a fuel. Another thing is that we had rehearsed quite a lot for “Night Sky Transform” and it came out with ease. The drums were recorded in the studio live (I was playing the guitar instead of having the driver playing in drummer’s headphones, no metronome used) and then I recorded the guitar and the bass. Panos recorded the vocals in different sessions and that was all. There was not much time due to the fact that I should go to the army back then, but we were able to do as it was planned and apparently it worked out really nice. The studio of our friend’s Miltos were the ultimate surroundings for what “Night Sky Transform” was about to become.
Your vocals are great Panos, they’re frantic and demented and not a generic cookie-monster growl. More akin to punk/crust and grind. Can you describe your approach to vocals?
Panos : Thanks for the feedback bro ! It’s simple : my main priority and motivation is to be as expressive as possible. I also like to scream very loud… I think that the tone of my voice is agressive and abrasive, so I like it to be preserved in the mix, without getting buried behind too many effects.
Panos, your former BM band Amnis Nihili recorded an absolutely devastating EP back in 2011, entitled « Christological Escalation ». It reminded a bit the kind of twisted, noisy, atmospheric yet super brutal BM of Leviathan/Lurker of Chalice. Can you tell us a bit more about it: how it came together, if there was a plan or purpose or statement behind it, if it was “real” band (a live one as well) or more of a studio project, and most of all, why you quit?
Panos : I’m pretty proud about my contribution to this recording, so hails for digging it! I joined Amnis Nihili in 2010. Three great tracks were ready at that point, having been recorded at a home studio with programmed drums (a drone instrumental was added later on). I recorded the vokills, came out with some samples, wrote the lyrics, and worked closely together with Viral Graphics for the visual part. It was exciting for me because I’ve always wanted to take part in a black/death record…
« Christological Escalation » was released as a 10 ‘’MLP and digipack MCD by Avantgarde Music. Its virulent antichristian concept and darkened aesthetics still represent me to this day. What happened is that the other members took their distances and since I didn’t feel like compromising, I eventually quit.
Some attempts to form a live line-up having failed back at the time, it remained a studio project. I ignore the current status.
Astronomy, esoterism and all things astral seem to be a common denominator in many of your lyrics. A way of triggering imagination or a theme you’ve studied in depth for specific reasons?
Panos : Gazing at the night sky is part of human nature, from the very first moment that our ancestors have stood on their feet. Therefore, the starting point of Dephosphorus’ concept is of existentialist nature, an attitude shared by all those who ponder even a bit about what all this means. Why are we here on this volcanic planet, observing this breath-taking, mind blowing cosmos – the structure of which we still ignore ?
Science fiction literature, as well as our deep interest in astronomy and cosmology are at the origin of our concept. We have not studied these fields academically, but there is definitely a scientific background to the band – I have a BSc in Computer Science and Thanos is about to obtain a MSc in Biotechnology. Science and reason shall prevail!
How strong is your connection to nature, skies and sees (which are so crucial in Greece)?
Panos : We are considering ourselves as heathens, in the sense that nature and the cosmos are sacred to us. We are profoundly connected to this land, its sea, atmosphere and mountains. As you have personally witnessed during your numerous trips over the last 30 years, it is definitely a very special place on our planet, one with some very unique vibes…
My disdain towards the local nationalists and nazis is even bigger because they think that this land belongs to them. They are wrong. We belong to the land, not the opposite way around.
Do you guys feel the need to escape Athens and get closer to wilderness?
Panos : Absolutely, it is crucial in order to maintain our sanity and take a step back from the labyrinth of concrete that Athens has become. Athens is surrounded by mountains and by the sea, so there’s plenty of getaways within reach. My favorite pasttime is to have a few beers and smokes by the sea with my friends.
Panos, you’ve been very active with your label and distro. Please describe the dynamics between the two departments, your goals and dreams!
Panos : I’ve started Blastbeat Mailmurder 12 years ago as a distro, because most of the underground metal and hardcore stuff that I was passionate about wasn’t distributed in the stores in Greece. It was before the Paypal era and few of the local kids had credit cards, so they had to send well-concealed cash abroad in order to buy records !
A couple of years later I’ve started releasing records, including those of my previous band, Straighthate. The mid-00’s being quite intense with a lot of stuff going on in my life, and since running a distro/label is a demanding hobby and passion, at some point I’ve lost focus, so I took a break which lasted a couple of years. I came back more focused and well organized, and things are now progressing slowly but surely.
Over the last year I’ve had some exciting new vinyl releases out including the 7’’EP from killer N.Y.D.M band Mutant Supremacy, and well, Vuyvr’s fantastic LP in cooperation with Throatruiner Records !
I’ve also started the Monomaniac comp. EP series, an exciting new project that I’m very passionate about. The aim is to bring together some of the most nasty underground bands from all over the globe, and ask approximately one (1!) minute of music from each one of them.
My dreams for Blastbeat Mailmurder involve continuing the Monomaniac series for a very long time, and it becoming an institution of sorts for the international extreme underground. I’m also looking forward for the moment when I will press the first vinyl of Kommpound, my personal experimental project…
What do Switzerland and the Wyvern evoke to you?
Panos : Switzerland for me represents a tiny country with a beautiful nature and an amazing, inspiring music scene. It appears familiar, possibly because I am francophone, yet eerie at the same time. The only time I’ve been there, it was in Geneva, I had a great time and watched a gorgeous Unsane show at l’Usine! Next time I would definitely need to feel the vibes of your country side…
I didn’t realize before Vuyvr what a Wyvern is! I had seen the occasional sketch from time to time, but never been able to put a name on it… I am a sucker for european folklore fables and myths, so I am looking forward to read a few stories about those creatures. I think that there aren’t any for them over here, but I will double check!
Hails from Greece !
Our latest album « Night Sky Transform », as well as « Axiom » and the split-7 ‘’EP with Wake are out on 7 Degrees Records.
The split-7 ‘’EP with Great Falls is out on Hell Comes Home.
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