CVLT Nation
Artist to Artist Interview Series:
Sangre de Muerdago vs Iconoclast

Iconoclast Records and Sangre de Muerdago are two of the most interesting labels and bands currently out there. Iconoclast Records based in Italy release and distribute mainly black, death and doom metal as well as a darker folk music. They also have a real decent DIY ethos and have released music by Black September, Æsahættr, Embers and of course Sangre De Muerdago. Sangre De Muerdago from Spain play music that is like the sounds of a forest at night, incorporating elements of folk, samples, traditional and new age.

A thank you to both for doing such an insightful detailed interview.

And now for something completely similar… Let’s question and answer ourselves, because the answer is into us, and it’s often wrong. First of all, the usual ritual question: Who are you? You are number 6… Oh, ok, sorry, we’re digressing… Where are you going? What are you carrying? And what is your role in this world?

Pablo (Sangre de Muerdago): Hi there!! Thank you for the interview!!
Who am I… Difficult one….
I´m going nowhere… Just passing by… There´s no role, just fate.

Davide (Iconoclast Records): Well, I’m not a number, I’m a free man, what else? Being a ‘bit more serious, I started Iconoclast about 5 years ago, at that time I was younger and full of expectations, the grass was green and the sky blue… As label’s chief, I was more into crust punk and hardcore, and more focused on some interesting Italian bands (Post Fata Resurgo and Bhopal above all), with some exceptions (check out the Swedish band Fredag den 13:e). The turning point was undeniably the releasing of Sermon of Vengeance of Chicago’s blackened deathsters Black September. We’re based in Bologna, Agipunk was already a point of reference for every punk, crust, hardcore band -and follower too- so the choice was quite easy, and when Claudio jumped in we moved the label’s focus on more strictly metal territories. As what concern what I personally do… Let’s skip the question, I’m going forward, that’s what I would like, at least. What I’m carrying are some heavy distro boxes, and believe me, my back is fucked up… My role in this world is to bring anguish and despair brandishing my battle axe.

Claudio (Iconoclast Records): I’m slowly going nowhere, carrying big shit bags. I definitely don’t have any role in this world, what a loss…

Sangre de Muerdago, you guys come from the diy punk scene, why did you choose the acoustic side of the Force?

Pablo: That´s true… we´ve always had a taste for folk and acoustic music and all what it comes with it though, even way earlier than punk and metal…. growing up in Galicia in the late 70´s, 80´s, meant you were surrounded by folk music all the time, old melodies, old stories that remained from mouth to mouth, from singer to singer… since i´ve been playing in punk and metal bands many years ago, i´ve always been enjoying and listening to folk and acoustic music, since i can play guitar, i´ve always been writing acoustic stuff, and slowly slowly this way of expression was getting more and more attention, until now which is the main creative project for me, and also the most fulfilling and inspiring. Besides the whole “healing myself” process that this music and its words are taking me through… music is a gate to a magical world, and folk music has always meant and means to me something very deep and grounded, rooted to our earth since centuries and centuries, a way to express our deepest feelings through words and melodies.
and besides all that, there´s such a beautiful diy community out there playing any kind of music, diy punk is just a tiny part of it….

Iconoclast Records, you guys come from the diy punk scene, why did you choose the metal side of the Force?

Davide: Because I’m a Jedi, as my father was before me.
Fuck no, I guess I already answered to this question before… However, basically I found more intersting proposals in the metal underground than in the stagnant crust punk scene. Moreover I realized that the only crust and hardcore bands I was still listening to were systematically the ones from the past. So I just thought “Why should I waste my commitment in something I don’t care that much anymore?”. Always speaking about music, I mean.

Claudio: Simply because it’s what I listen to, but my attitude never changed, has perhaps evolved. There are interesting death/black/doom metal bands in the underground DIY scene, with a genuine approach. It means that it’s not all about rockstar wannabes.
I joined Iconoclast with the idea that metal and hc-punk (especially crust) have primordial connections. Bathory, Entombed, Napalm Death, Carcass, Bolt Thrower, etc…were influenced also by crustpunk bands, just as Discharge, English Dogs, DRI, Suicidal Tendencies, etc joined metal at some point. Therefore, it’s not strange if in 2013 a death metal band plays some gigs with a crust one, just as Bolt Thrower played gigs with Negazione and Deviated Instinct in the 80’s. Born too late, someone said.
By the way, there’s a lot of people involved in both punk/crust and metal bands just as punx which always listened to metal, and the opposite…
Rivalries between punk and metal are so ridiculous…

What inspires you above all?

Pablo: At this point, let´s say that it feels to me nearly impossible to be in this world and don´t feel inspired by anything… there are too many great things out there that leave on me such an impression…
Nature has been, is and will always be the main source for these beautiful feelings; its beauty, shape, mysteries, stories, legends…. and humanity on the other side, has been, is, and will be the main source for the opposite feelings, there are of course exceptions, but sadly we suffer a lack of these ones…
At the current state of things, it is a need to open doors to our sorrow and melancholy, and not lock them up behind a door inside ourselves, we should deal with it so after we do it we can laugh and smile at each other. Music allows me to say through strings and melodies what i can not say with words….

Davide: Iron Maiden.

Claudio: Darkness.

S.d.M., what is your idea of folk music? What do you think about this Neo-folk revival (politically and musically)? Any interesting band to suggest?

Pablo: I believe I pretty much explained this in the questian number 2. My idea of music in general is to express what comes from your heart, if your music is honest and pure, it will always fulfill yourself, and touch and inspire other people, in whatever shape it comes… it´s all up to which kind of feelings you want express in your music…
I can´t tell much about a neo-folk revival, i don´t really know about this because i´ve never heard of this revival… I`ve got to know this genre of music (or at list the word neo-folk) after Sangre de Muerdago was rolling, probably back in 2006-2007, and i still don´t know much about it. In it, i found some very inspiring and beautiful music and people, as in the case of Novemthree, In gowan Ring, Vradiazei, Árnica…. But again, i don´t know what you can call or not neo-folk cause i´m lost with that term, i`ve heard other stuff called like that, that had nothing to do with folk music, or at least with my idea of it…
A few times people have labeled us like that, but since our musical inspiration comes mainly from old folk/traditional music, people normally label us with other terms.

I.R., what is your idea of metal music? What do you think about this metal revival in the diy scene (politically and musically)? Any interesting band to suggest?

Davide: Let me quote Judas Priest, Let’s all join forces, Rule with iron hand, And prove to all the world, Metal rules the land, We’re heavy duty, So come on let’s tell the world, We are defenders of the faith. Actually, I have no idea and I don’t really care about what metal is, and neither what it should be. It’s just something I like, if done in some ways. Metal and punk have always been connected thinking of the ’80s. GBH and Discharge, both added metal in their music at certain point, Broken Bones and English Dogs represent the so-called metalpunk, Napalm Death have their roots in the diy hardcore punk scene, Amebix and Axegrinder have influences many metal bands, as well as Anti Cimex. Bathory were heavily influenced by the Swedish hardcore punk, as Quorthon said. Thrash metal bands like Nuclear Assault, Sacred Reich, Anthrax were directly related to the hardcore punk. D.R.I. and Suicidal Tendencies generated the word crossover… Underground and diy are the common base for punk and metal. Of course the political urgency was something different, but the rebel tendency is shared by any extreme music genre.
So, I think there’s not a real revival, because everything is revival now. It’s just a matter of where the trend is going this or that month, this Summer everybody listen to dark wave so let’s find every wave goth gig or party for the next few weekends, then all hail doom, so let’s go to see Saint Vitus and Pentagram and sew some cool obscure patch on our vests, but Winter is coming so it’s time to some black metal and bla bla bla, I could complain for hours about this and that…
About suggesting some band I should say Iron Maiden, haha!
Underground death metal is doubtless living its second youth: something really interesting is proposed by bands such as Morbus Chron, Usurpress, Bombs of Hades, Entrails, Miasmal (Sweden rules as usual), Cruciamentum, … The list might be too long. Check out the Italian scene, represented by Undead Creep, Profanal, Haemophagus above all. 
Speaking of black metal is harder, mostly because it’s quite easy to cross the path with nazi-friendly scum, you know… As well as they have stolen punk and hardcore, it’s hard to keep black metal free from those tendencies. Black metal isn’t a political genre by definition, but I’m not against, for example, the RABM. Bands like Iskra, Embers, Panopticon, Skagos, Alda are doing their job pretty well. I think that anarchy and a primordial approach to nature and life, some form of paganism might have something in common. What I often do not like about this new trend is the musical choice… I’m bored by the Cascadian scene and their way to imitate Wolves in the Throne Room (which are probably the only band in this “new vave” that I like).
Anyway, I listen to a lot of black metal, beside from the great names…
About Italy, check out my friend Graad, a blackened drone one man band from Bologna, and the “old school is da law” triad composed by Barbarian, Bunker 66 and Noia. Grim Monolith is a great and underrated black metal band from Sicily, Saturnine from Bologna are an interesting all female combo playing a sort of sludge doom with a crusty touch… Doomraiser from Rome are probably one my favorite Italian bands… However, I’m definitely forgetting someone important…

Claudio: Extreme metal has its roots in the underground. Death metal started out with the tape trading, Black metal started to keep the underground alive when Death metal sold its ass, even if in the end became worst. We all know the story… But there always been a strong connection between underground music and metal, so I can’t really think about a revival in the diy scene. What is changed is that now punx no longer have to be ashamed of listening it perhaps, haha!
Metal, like music in general, does not speak necessarily about politics but a big fuck off to every form of nazi-fascism.
Some bands to suggest….Sweden continues to pull out some great bands in Death Metal: Usurpress “Trenches of the netherworld” is definitely one of my favorite records of 2012, so I’m fuckin’ proud we released the vinyl version of this LP. Bombs of Hades, Morbus Chron, Tribulation and Internment are among my favorites too. Can’t forget to mention the mighty finnish doom/death Hooded Menace.
On the Black Metal side Extinction Algorithm from Romania is incredibly skilful in creating dark and melancholic atmospheres worthy of Transylvanian landscapes. My favorite so far. Moreover, I really enjoyed this band from the States you suggested me: False. They’re amazing!
In Italy, there are some great bands too: Eroded, Haemophagus, Assumption, Doomraiser, Abysmal Grief, Saturnine, Bunker 66, Grim Monolith, Profanal, Barbarian, Graad…
Obviously, I can’t forget the crust heroes Kontatto/Campus Sterminii!

…And what’s your idea of DIY in 2013? Is something actually feasible? Both in music and lifetime, we mean.

Pablo: Of course it is something feasible, since there are so many people out there doing it this way… our personal experience gave us many different experiences on this field of DIY, it´s been many years working this way, and it definitely has it´s peaks and its disappointments. DIY has been nearly a religion for us either in music or in life itself….
I don´t know if we belong to any “scene”, do we? We are just ot there expressing ourselves and roaming through the paths of life, enjoying to cross paths with such a variety of folks who inspire us and bring us beautiful moments in their company.

Davide: It’s a very complex matter, I’ll be damned for having written that, hahaha!
I always thought that “diy” was something sacred, some sort of better world possible… I’m still thinking in that way about my life, I would like to move away from the city, and far from the civilization as much as possible, become self-sufficient and stay out of the mechanism of production, since I’m disillusioned by the political struggle. This is something I tend to, but I do not know if I’ll be able to realize it.
In music, well, to be 100% diy you should build your own instruments, amps, studio recording, and press records at home… And then steal gasoline and not ask any money to play live. I believe we can keep handling our activities without any authority, hierarchy, intermediaries and profiteers, this is my idea of diy in this moment.

Claudio: Sometimes it’s feasible, sometimes not. For some people it’s feasible for others not. I would like to think it’s the best way to do it, but sadly, not always succeed. The basic concept of DIY stands behind the fact that does not make sense doing things in an approximate way, but with more dedication because when you do things alone you must commit yourself more if you want to succeed. But if works, should works better.
If DIY in lifestyle means moving to some mountain isolated from everyone, building materially things by myself, then I can tell you that I’m not really interested in living in this way, even if I deeply respect this choice, but it’s not mine. I spent 90% of my time behind music (bands, label, records, concerts…), so I try to apply it to my lifestyle, which to me does not mean physically build for example records by myself. 🙂
To me, it’s about taking control as much as possible of how today we can do in our lives. We should live following our own passions and fight to make it real rather than trying to change a world that has already written his path many years ago. Since my biggest passion in my life has always been music, I naturally put my energy on it, and so, music and lifetime become the same thing.
The point is that I can not even come close to live with this and sometime I need to find some shitty jobs… So, for some reasons I can’t say it’s actually feasible, maybe one day will be. You should question me again in some years…

S.d.M, do you think of yourselves as part of some kind of “scene”? You often play gigs along with metal and punk bands, do you still feel connected to this “underground”?

Pablo: I don´t know if we belong to any “scene”, do we? We are just ot there expressing ourselves and roaming through the paths of life, enjoying to cross paths with such a variety of folks who inspire us and bring us beautiful moments in their company.

I.R., do you think of yourselves as part of some kind of “scene”? Do you still feel connected to this “underground”?

Davide: Fuck the scene, that’s what I say, I love music at 360 degrees, and what I think on reaching the age of 32 is that I care about a few friends and my cats, period. Of course I’m still involved in organizing gigs, playing and producing music, releasing records and I’m still doing that 66,6% diy.
I no longer care that much about the fate of this world and the subversive potential of extreme music. Sorry for my cynicism.

Claudio: I obviously feel connected to the undeground… But the word “scene” sounds more like a convention.

Since we know each others since many years, and we have been on tour many times with several bands, let’s talk about touring. Weirdest situations, funny anecdotes, memorable moments…

Pablo: That´s a difficult one… so many things have happened on the road in the last 15 or 16 years….
You guys in Iconoclast got to know some of the folks which i shared bands with, so let your imagination do the rest… 
There were too many shows and crazy, funny or weird, good and bad situations…

Davide: My memories are distorted by years and years of vices, so I don’t remember anything… Haha!
Actually, the worst anecdotes are probably the ones about me, so I better keep those stories unwritten, don’t you think? I don’t wanna make fun of whom then can not defend itself, I could write an endless list of someone who puked or pissed in the van, or someone else who disappeared several times… Touring is something unpredictable and beyond any description… What I have to say is that I found some good friend and I made some enemies during my journeys around Europe…

Claudio: I spent a long time on tour with my bands and as a driver. Pissing in the van, shitting in the pants, drinkin piss and then puking, forgetting shoes, bags and instruments in venues, being payed with 2€ and burger king food, being woken up by molotov cocktails in the guest room while sleeping, sleeping beside some bandmate who was talking and snoring at the same time, basically creating a brand new language… These are the first things I remember…

In particular, since you (S.d.M.) don’t require necessarily to plug the instruments to play live, what is the most singular place where you played?

Pablo: We´ve been playing any kind of place, the reality of playing with electricity is such a wonderful thing! Just to mention places where electricity wasn´t available, we´ve played in the middle of the woods, gardens and bunch of shows around the fire, terraces, an old train wagon, old celtic houses… and i hope to play on a wooden boat and on a roof one day…

Could you make a comparison between touring Europe and the US?

Pablo: I´ve toured two times in th US, and many times in Europe… probably, and as many people know, the main difference, at least under my experience, is that in Europe, food, drinks and sleeping places are normally known to be provided… while in the US, you better ask for all this and make sure you´ll be provided or at least know that you should take care of yourselves… Of course this is just a generalisation, since we´ve experienced occasinally to be the other way around…
Besides that, probably the distances you have to drive are normally much longer in the US, not only touring though, but just moving around the country, especially if your tour is crossing the mid west… the first time i toured the US in 2008, there were whole weeks when we were basically just driving or playing….
We´ve definitely been equally welcomed, fed, had great warm audiences, and best times in both places!

Davide: The US are something that I’ve heard in some movie… Does this place really exist? I guess not…

Claudio: I can’t. I’ve never been in the States. I was really close to go on tour in 2010 with Giuda in our second and last US Tour. But I had some health issues just a couple of days before leaving and they went on tour with a last minute bass player. What a pity…

Do you have side projects beside playing in Sangre de Muerdago?

Pablo: Nothing serious or active going on at the moment…

Do you have musical projects beside running Iconoclast records?

Davide: Oh yeah, here’s the perfect question to publicize us!
I play bass and I scream in Bland Vargar, epic raw black metal band, and I sing in Ancient Cult, a brand new obscure ’70s inspired heavy rock act (http://www.facebook.com/longlivethecult)… And that’s it for now.
I always wanted to start a burning spirit japcore band, the idea was a work in progress never ended… Many more ideas are growing in my mind, we’ll see…
Moreover, Claudio and I (with the help of some friend) are the organizers of Into the Void fest (www.facebook.com/intothevoidfest), a diy metal fest now in its second edition and we’re part of a collective which set up shows in a place called Atlantide (which is under eviction, by the way).

Claudio: Sure!
Undead Creep: bass player. Old school death metal just like the early Stockholm bands. http://undeadcreep.bandcamp.com
Bland Vargar: guitar. Epic raw black metal. http://blandvargar.bandcamp.com
Moreover I have a brand new project with Davide, Marziona Kontatto and a longtime friend (Faniello!) totally devoted to the 70’s heavy rock music. Hail to the Ancient Cult!

S.d.M., some consideration we made while watching your show in Bologna: thinking that there might be a silent audience in the DIY scene is kinda like believing that there might be a better world?

Pablo: There are silent audiences, and there is a better world somewhere out there… Oh yeah…

I.R., why do you guys put out records?? What´s your goal? Is there any goal?? What do you guys think “Ok, i really would like to release this!”

Davide: Well, I put out records because I always wanted to be rich, and since I always took wrong decisions in my life, I keep follow this path! Hahaha! Oh, such a good comedian I could be…
I’m doing that basically because I like it, and I still feel to support some realities I really care about, and that’s how we choose the bands we want to collaborate with… I would like to create something like “the Iconoclast sound”, a point of reference for those who search the most obscure side of obscure music.

Claudio: First of all, I release bands I like, I release music I like. Sangre de Muerdago is a clear example. We really love your band. I don’t care if you’re not a metal project (you’re metal inside!).
Then, I like bands which work hard to promote their music, like you do. I disagree with those who think that the responsability is exclusively on the label if a record goes well or not if these people are all the time at home thinking that things comes from the sky without any commitment.
Passion is the foundations of why we do it. The main goal I have is to spread the records we release. I’m not very interested in accumulate vinyls in the hallway of my flat for years and years. The world is already polluted enough to have another 500 copies of a record that no one will listen to. It’s a very difficult goal nowadays.

Some very important questions we have forgotten before: Deep Purple or Led Zeppelin? Beatles or Rolling Stones? Burzum or Mayhem? Black metal or Death metal? Plato or Aristotle? Church or State? Cats or dogs? Sea or mountains? Riding a bike or walking? Whatever… An interesting experiment to answer seriously to a stupid question.

Pablo:
Deep Purple or Led Zeppelin?
They are both so great, but i have to say Led Zeppelin.
Beatles or Rolling Stones?
Who are these people??
Burzum or Mayhem?
Filosofem, Belus and De Mysteriis.
Black metal or Death metal?
Entombed, Dismember and Dissection.
Plato or Aristotle?
Master and student.
Church or State?
Argh….
Cats or dogs?
Both. I have a dog though, no cats at the moment….
Sea or mountains?
Where mountains die in the sea.
Riding a bike or walking?
Both, depending on the situation 

Davide:
1) Deep Purple are probably my favorite band ever alongside with Jethro Tull, but Led Zeppelin are the only biggest band from the 70s which had the decency to split up before writing some awful record, and if their Celebration Day concert in London in 2007 is considered one of the most important event of the twenty-first century, I guess their relevance to popular culture is absolute. Moreover I can’t forget that Deep Purple changed their sound after having listened to the Zeppelin.
I’m sure Claudio will answer Black Sabbath to this first question… I love them, of course, but you know, music is often a matter of feeling and personal taste… Before saying Pink Floyd, well, they were not human beings, they’re beyond any comparison and discussion. Anyway, these bands were formed by Gods, this is simple philosophical speculation. Go on.
2) Beatles were one of my father’s favorite band, so I listened a lot to them when I was young, but I have to say that I understood their importance only in recent times and well, they overcome the Stones for sure. Speaking about riffs, since I always loved blues, I often feel more excited when I listen to some Stones’ song…
3) Undeniably Burzum, even if De Misteriis… and Live in Leipzig are mandatory. Varg Vikernes is a distorted product of our ruinous society, and it’s hard to separate the music from the man, but even if I will never support his job buying records or merchandise, I can’t deny that his music has stongly influenced me.
4) I love both, but black metal better represents my more obscure and hidden feelings.
5) Aristotle! Mostly because I’ve never liked the Plato’s theory of some superior immutable world of Ideas of which the real world -and the arts- is a corrupted reproduction… I’m more into sophist philosophers like Gorgias.
6) Of course the Church, their secrets are safer, they had the Inquisition, they’re better dressed, they peacefully can rape children, they survived deleting many cultures. The State is destined to crumble one day, the Church will stay forever and after forever…
7) Cats for sure, no way! Cats are what I’d like to be, and think about why there are no police cats…
8) Mountains are where I was born and where I’ll be buried (or scattered to the wind).
9) Walking forever, hiking, climbing… The important thing is not the destination, it’s the walk (not really, actually…).

Claudio:
Deep Purple or Led Zeppelin? Impossible to choose. Purple and Zeppelin were absolutely incredible bands!
Beatles or Rolling Stones? Beatles.
Burzum or Mayhem? Ulver.
Black metal or Death metal? Both.
Plato or Aristotle? Neither.
Church or State? Neither.
Cats of dogs? I live with both, and I like it.
Sea or mountains? Sea. I’m from the SOUTH.
Riding a bike or walking? None of your business… 

Something usual, again: Future plans.

Pablo: Play music, move back to the mountains/country, have a garden again, keep studying the mysteries, keep learning from nature and about trees, edible wild plants, herbs… Basically get more and more self-sufficient. Die in the forest.

Davide: See Iron Maiden and Motörhead playing live this year!
Apart from that, I would like that Iconoclast, Into the Void fest and my bands grow into something always better… My final purpose, in the end, would be to find a house in the countryside, build my home studio recording, growing vegetables and prepare myself to the apocalypse.

Claudio: Bombs of Hades & Undead Creep split LP on Iconoclast coming soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Say bye to somebody and say fuck you to someone else.

Pablo: Thanx for the interview!!

Davide: I want to say bye to no one except you, Pablo, and fuck you to Claudio, whom I’m tolerating since 4 years in the same flat! Cheers bro!
I’d like to say fuck off to too many people, and goodbye to a very few I care about, so this is the end, my friend.

Claudio: Fuck you all! 🙂

CONTACTS:

Sangre de Muerdago
http://www.sangredemuerdago.bandcamp.com
http://www.facebook.com/thecrowcallstheravenblack

Iconoclast Records
http://www.iconoclastrecords.org
http://www.facebook.com/IconoclastRecords